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In my battle to get our RV completely level, I finally pulled out the Nuclear Option. I installed automatic leveling jacks from E&P hydraulics on our ProMaster-based Winnebago Travato. Check out this video to see them being installed, and to see them in action:
Level. Oh you sweet, tasty level…
If you’ve hung around here a while, you’ve seen me “get my OCD on” around getting our RV level. It’s true. I’m kind of a freak about it. I’ve tried blocks, and I’ve tried weird curvy blocks (that I didn’t like). I’ve bought super expensive levels, and used them to install a leveling box in our rig. That I did like, and while it gave me data about level, it didn’t do anything to get me level. So after a couple years of obsessing, all I had was the same Hosspads I started with, and perfect knowledge of exactly how out of level I was.
Then, came our visit to Advanced RV. They’re a custom Class B maker. And since it’s their business, they get to experiment with pretty much any technology their customers want. Fortunately, I’m not alone in my level geekiness, and the folks at Advanced RV had been installing automatic leveling jacks from E&P Hydraulics in some of their Sprinter motorhomes.
Knowing this, I checked out E&P and found that besides Sprinters, they also manufactured leveling jacks for the Fiat Ducato. The Ducato is the European cousin of our Ram ProMaster. So I made some inquiries and asked if their Ducato system would work on a US ProMaster. There were a few emails back and forth, and pictures of the underbelly of Lance. In the end the folks at E&P and Advanced RV are just as eager to try new things as I am, so we decided to give it a go! The install went smoothly, and ahead of schedule, and you can see the finished product in the video.
Dialing in the auto-leveling with reps from E&P and Advanced RV.
Oh I’m level… but there’s more.
And yes. In practice, the E&P jacks work exactly as I had hoped they would. The automatic leveling gets me more or less level, and then I can tweak it to my heart’s content using the manual mode to get my head the just-slightly-higher-than-my-feet that I prefer for sleeping. It’s AWESOME!
But there’s another benefit that I hadn’t even considered that I’ve grown to love (and Stef likes, as well). You see, when the jacks are down, the vehicle isn’t resting on its suspension. So besides being level, it doesn’t sway at all! We can get in, get out, run back and forth front-to-back, and you’d never know from looking at the outside of the van. There’s no sway, no rocking… nothing. We never really realized how much our van moved when we were inside it – until it quit moving.
And Before You Ask
I tried to show this in the video, and since the install, I’ve measured myself. Installing the leveling jacks did not decrease the ground clearance of our Travato. The jacks are higher than the rear axle, which has always been our lowest point. I haven’t measured the departure angle yet, but I suspect that the rear hitch is still our sticking point there. But even though it didn’t decrease the absolute ground clearance, I obviously do have a few extra things hanging down underneath the van. I haven’t scraped one yet, and I think being reasonably careful (as you should driving any RV) will keep me out of trouble there.
And, since a couple of you have asked…
Yes, the capacity of the leveling system is quite a bit greater than what we showed in this video. I haven’t tested the absolute capacity of the system, but I know it’s greater than the two inches of Hosspads I was carrying before. We once deployed it on a loading ramp. How’s this for leveling?
We’d never actually try to spend the night here, but we tried this out just to see…
Just like Ron said, you really can raise a wheel off the ground.
So in short. I ABSOLUTELY LOVE our automatic leveling jacks from E&P Hydraulics. I love being level. I love being steady. And Stef loves me not having to drive all over the campground for about an hour trying to find a spot that’s level. Everyone wins.
Cheers!
I may not be going about this the correct way but I seen a post from you a while back about cutting the top of refrigerator so you could change settings without opening . I still have my 15g did you run into any problems. Am I somehow missing how to pull up old post. Back then I think the name was modifications by Vance.?
No problems resulted from that mod.
You can read about it here: http://www.thefitrv.com/rv-tech/why-i-took-a-hacksaw-to-our-rv-refrigerator/
Advanced RV is not currently installing the leveling systems. Do you know of other dealers that are installing these on a Sprinter van chassis?
I wish I did but I don’t.
We’re trying to get some levelers ourselves! It’s difficult!
What dealers install this system in the US?
Thanks for another informative vid (even if it is old). We’ve been watching you guys for a year or so. I think these are probably out of the range I want to spend right now, but it goes at the bottom of the wish list. And now that you have told us how to “best” clean our black tanks and what TP to use and to never flush wipes (Except MAYBE Scotts)… we should be GTG!! Just starting this adventure with a Pleasure Way Plateau TS (y) I work for a banking IT Department and can now go fully mobile, so now its over to Tehnomadia to figure out my best options (Can’t Wait For STARLINK)!
Glad we could be helpful!
(And they quit making Scott wipes, so pretty much don’t flush any of them anymore!)
James .. been a few years now since you installed he leveling system. Anything to add to your initial great feeling (plus or minus) now?
Still love it!
In fact, since we’re now looking to get a new RV, a leveling system is high on our list for mods!
The only problem we’ve ever had with it is that sometimes the range of the remote seems limited – but that’s nothing we can’t fix by just moving closer to the center of the van or changing the batteries.
There are a lot of opinions about how to employ leveling system out in the RV world, issue being do you still use leveling blocks under the wheels if the leveling system lifts the wheels off the ground (mainly talking front wheels, not the rear duallys on my MB Sprinter 3500). For me the consideration for getting a leveling system is so I don’t have to use leveling blocks under the wheels unless it would be for an extended period of time. Of course depending on the surface I would use blocks under the leveling pads to prevent sinking (hot payment, soft ground, etc). I really don’t get the point of getting such an expensive system to still use leveling blocks under the tires. Is that a good assumption or should one still use blocks for leveling under the tires?
We do not use blocks or supports under the leveling jacks unless there’s a special circumstance. The pads are quite large, so we don’t generally need anything.
Loved this Youtube post! I think a leveling system can do so much more than just keep you level. I have to visit family in San Francisco often and oh my! The street are all sloped. So this would be perfect and not too visible if you want to go stealth. No more getting stuck in snow/mud, makes tire changes easy, can park on driveway and be level, no swaying inside, and may also relieve pressure on tires when parked at home. Could you raise the van and leave it like that when parked for long periods? It would save on tire wear. Thanks!
I’ve never tried leaving the levelers deployed for a long period of time.
It does seem like that might help prevent flat-spotting your tires. But I’d rather replace several hundred dollars of tires instead of several thousand dollars of leveling system…
James, thank you for this, even though it has been posted for quite some time. We just used our 2019 59KL for the first time and were blessed with a level spot, as I had not acquired any leveling blocks. I like everything about it except for the obnoxious R A M on the front grill. Anyway, I want to use this E&P hydraulic system. Big Question: I know you had it installed on your Lance, your 59G of a few years age, so I am wondering now whether after using Parky, the 2019 59KL (with the obnoxious grill emblem!), you feel the same set up will work on the later (different) model? Thanks in advance. I really want to make an appointment with Advanced RV and will await your reply if you have time.
Whether or not the E&P kit can be installed depends on whether or not there is anything blocking the points where it would be mounted. On my 2016 G, there was nothing in the way. I honestly haven’t gotten under Parky to see if we could install them because Parky is a loaner and we’ll be giving him back. Best bet is to call Advanced RV and have them send you some diagrams or something that shows where they will be mounting parts, and check the clearance on your van. That’s what I did with them before heading there for the install.
We recently parted with our ’97 Eurovan T4 for various reasons and now I’m COMPLETELY overwhelmed with all the choices for Class Bs out there and the MANY reviews with varying info. I did wonder, “What does this guy drive?”. Is it indeed the Travato? Yes, I realize everyone has different wants and needs…I just wondered if it’s perhaps telling that that’s what you and your family use? 🙂
I think Winnebago would say so… 😉
why this brand then the other brands out there on the market.
is it the options etc.
Well, this is the only brand of levelers we found that would even work on a ProMaster!
The ProMaster is a rather low vehicle. It’s front wheel drive, and sits pretty low to the ground.
The dual telescoping nature of the jacks means they actually fit underneath. “Normal” jacks would not.
How does E&P system differ from HWH system that’s available at Camping World?
I don’t believe the HWH system will fit on a ProMaster – too little room underneath.
The E&P system has a two stage telescoping jack, so they can get more extension using only the room that’s under the ProMaster without reducing the ground clearance.
For what it’s worth, I called Advanced RV and asked for the prices for both the VB Air Suspension and the E&P Stabilizer Jack system and they were $7675 and $7452 respectively (assuming no custom work if something is in the way on your Promaster). It’s about a week for both to be installed, roughly half that if you just want one. Not cheap.
Not cheap. But never having the fridge door swing unexpectedly… priceless!
I can’t find the US phone number could you please provide it or the address in Ohio. I go on their side and they no longer have a way to get a hold of them from the US. Without phone calling them.
Advanced RV, in Willoughby Ohio.
https://advanced-rv.com/contact/
Can I request this to be installed in one of the dealership here in Florida?
I don’t think there are any E&P certified installers in Florida.
Your best bet is to check the E&P web site and find an installer that is convenient for you.
How do you add fluid to the reservoir?
Don’t know, haven’t had to do it yet. I’ll have to have a look at the instructions. I imagine it involves a funnel and crawling around underneath the rig.
there is a pump under the hood on top by motor . use funnel easy to get to
Love your videos! Lots of excellent information. I wanted you to know that some of us viewers saw right through your reasoning for why you wanted the auto leveling jacks. You’re looking for that extra 2.8 per inch on the black tank drain. We know that you are (secretly) raising the rv when you go to drain the black tank…lol. Mentally counting “one apple, two apple, three baby, four light bulb…bwa ha ha ha. (And yes, I know you were measuring tank height, not drain drop…but I couldn’t get the image of you chortling up on the roof out of my head). Again, very entertaining and keep posting!
Wow! Someone was paying attention in our Black Tank On The Roof video!
Haven’t watched that one in quite a while. Lol!
How do you add fluid to the reservoir?
Hey James! I love your videos! I have a Coach House Platinum II just like the one you guys reviewed a while back in an RV park. I love it! But they told me that Mercedes would void the 5 year 100,000 mile warranty if a leveling system were installed as the frame was not meant to handle that. I know yours was on a Pro Master, but do they have a solution for a Mercedes Sprinter 3500? Thanks again & howdy to Stephanie!
Did Coach House tell you that? Or Mercedes? I highly doubt it voids the warranty. These things are installed all the time!
Yes, there is one available for the Sprinter 3500. Advanced RV can install it. They install on their own Sprinter builds regularly!
Hi, love your videos..the link is for Europe…where did you get it done in US and do you have that link
Thanks
Yes, E&P is a European company. We had the install done at Advanced RV, in Willoughby Ohio.
James, I fear it’s going to be a terrible day when you run out of tweaks to make on Lance! I hope you’re near a hospital or a bar! I enjoy your videos!
I could always start redoing old ones?
There you go! ILl watch them all.
It looks like this would be installed where our generator is. Yes?
Not really. Our generator had been installed in the middle of the coach, behind the rear axle. The leveling jacks are installed on the frame rails – the generator went between the rails.
In my opinion, you could install these jacks if you still had the generator.
Have you weighed your van recently? All these mods you’ve done look heavy.
Yes. I weigh the van after each major mod. When fully loaded for a trip with 4 bikes, cat, full tanks, etc, we still have a couple hundred pounds to spare. We’re good!
One thing to note, by raising the jacks by releasing the parking brake you might risk bending the jacks if the coach starts to move if you are an incline. Just a thought. Otherwise great video.
Yes, someone else mentioned that.
Technically, the e-brake lift is a safety feature. A darn convenient one, but one that could lead to abuse as you suggest.
I may need to rethink my approach to departures…
What is the approximate cost to have this system installed?
It would be a few thousand dollars – but it would depend on your rig, and whether or not you had the VB Air suspension installed as well.
Best bet is to call Advanced RV for pricing for your situation.
We had contacted ARV asking about the E&P hydraulic system for our Sprinter-based LTV. We were quoted over $6800 as long as there was nothing interfering with the installation locations, 4-6 week lead time, 12 hours for installation. This was for hydraulic only, not the additional VB air system.
How unlevel can the van be before engaging the system and still level the van. For example, without this system we would raise a tire two to four inches using blocks. Your test site looked reasonably level to begin with – the camera may not have shown everything. Find a bad campsite and film demonstration number two. Thanks for sharing! Christmas may come early to my van this year!
The capability of the system is much greater than this campsite showed.
We did level the van once on a loading ramp.
I’ll update the post with pictures.
James, what’s the approximate cost of the leveling system? Could it be installed if you didn’t have the air bag suspension system?
It would be a few thousand dollars – but it would depend on your rig, and whether or not you had the VB Air suspension installed as well.
Best bet is to call Advanced RV for pricing for your situation.
They DO have a model that can be installed if you do not have the VB Air suspension.
Does this system have a way to manually calibrate so it will auto level to the 1/2″ lower in the front you prefer?
Yes, there is a calibration procedure. I haven’t investigated it yet, but we did it initially to set the level in the first place. I assume I could rerun it to get the slight tilt I prefer.
So… What does something like that cost?
It would be a few thousand dollars – but it would depend on your rig, and whether or not you had the VB Air suspension installed as well.
Best bet is to call Advanced RV for pricing for your situation.
Ah, I wanted to see it fully extend and see how much off the ground it could get and if you really could change a tire.
Yes, you can. We’ve got a picture somewhere. I’ll see if I can find it.
Look down through the comments. If I dig it up, I’ll try to post it there.
I have a 1999 Dodge 3500 Dually Xplorer camper van and would love to install these jacks. How do I find out if that can be done? Love your videos…
I believe the E&P system is made specifically for certain chassis.
Best bet is to look at their web site and see if they make one for your make/model (or for its European cousin).
Very cool and informative post. It’s a contrast to a post by an airstream owner who professed his love for the manual hand-crank jacks!
Hey, I would keep the emergency brake on until the jacks are raised. If you were ever on a slope the car could move a few inches in park. If one of the cylinders was a little late rising, stuck in the soil, or blocked by a rock it could bend the cylinder if the car moves forward. Just a thought.
Yes, technically the handbrake interlock is a safety feature, and *not* the recommended way to raise the jacks.
It’s just a little too convenient for its own good.
I do let the vehicle “settle” into park before I deploy the jacks, but even so, you bring up some good points.
I should probably change my SOP somewhat. 🙂
⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ For doing it better with Advanced RV
I think you were off by one order of magnitude James while estimating the psi equivalency to bar measurement in the video. I think 200 bar would be closer 3000 psi.
Do you think it would be advisable to lower the cylinder feet onto pieces of 2×8 wooden blocks or similar just in case the feet were lowered onto moist soil or water and froze? Could you risk damaging the system or mounting points during retraction if they froze to the ground?
Yeah, I realized that afterward, while editing the footage. 3000 psi would be enough to easily lift a corner of the van.
(I’ve never really worked in bar much.)
You could always lower on to blocks of wood, or hosspads or something similar if you were worried. But as for us… I’m not carrying any anymore. Since the cylinders are driven in both directions, they have some oomph on the way up as well.
We heard Ron from E&P tell us about customers who have used their systems to get UN-stuck from the snow – by raising a corner of the van enough to get some traction material underneath a wheel.
I’ve put the hosspads in storage.